Smallones

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Re: Smallones

Postby Swaffy » Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:54 am

Great, I got them working. I brought back my backup of Bocage because its pathfinding files are refined (this is before I did the striping stuff). I then simply edited the smallones/waypoints a lot.

Here is my outcome. I did some further tweaking after I recorded this, but this is mainly what it turned out to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGrwok3W-OQ
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Re: Smallones

Postby cajunwolf » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:02 am

Ahhh grasshopper, you learn well!

Great video (y'all need to do me a tutorial on how to do this, I d\l'ed CamStudio btw so is this a good tool?. Hint Hint

Love the blue and red vehicles and interesting remake of Bocage? I see you set up the crossing at the river and I did this to my copy, but I used smig's totally kewl pontoon bridge custom and it is a much better solution. Also leave the vehicles out and it works much better. If you want a link to the pontoon bridge let me know.

Quick edit. Here is smig's pontoon bridge.

Smig's custom Pontoons Bridge. Image by Smig.


Here I have it placed in a map.

Pontoons bridge placed in map.


It can be downloaded along with his other great models here. Of course if you use them give credits. (note he has thumbnail issues, so just rt click open in a new tab)

Btw you can run this from a "additionalStaticObjects.con" file run from SinglePlayer .cons only. If you don't know how, ask me.

You do realize that proper pathmapping means less "tweaking" of the waypoints right? I mean you have done great don't get me wrong, but I just want all to understand this. By this I mean very neatly whiting out ALL areas of the map that bots don't need to go or will not use anyhow. Be sure and study your smallones well and white out areas to reduce the un-needed and smaller do go areas. I will show this by example but for now this will suffice. I guess what I am trying to get everybody to understand is the do go and no go areas in each info tile and how and they are formed.

I will be passing you more pathmap information but ...

I guess now I need to do a thread on Strategic Areas (henceforth refereed to as SA's), what they are, what they do, and how they control where and when the bots move about the map. This new knowledge combined with what you have learned about the pathmaps will farther your ability to control how the bots use and follow the pathmaps. It is the conditions of the SA's that you use to create your strategies. Think about this for a minute. When setting up SA's one of the settings is ...

AIStrategicArea.addNeighbour SA_Name

... By default both BFSPC & Bontinator connect all SA's to each other, but you can see right off that this is not a good idea. Second they only create SA's for the controlpoints. You can create as many SA's as you want (that are not control points of course), but it's best to keep them to a minium. Feel free to experiment of course. For instance you can create say two extra SA's connected from the main base and this will be the only SA's the bots will see. In your breakout strategy you have two attacks set. Now on map start you have two groups of bots that take off towards these two SA's only, once there these SA's connect to the other neighbors (SA's) throughout the map. Now say your breakout strategy is set to change on condition of owning three SA's (aiStrategy.createConstantCondition threefriendlyareacond Crisp Equal Friendly 3) and in the strategy activated by this condition you have say 4 attacks. Now your going to see the bots break down smaller groups, or hey squads and each squad go after the SA's connected as neighbors to that SA. Heheh, I think I hear some gears grinding in all your beady little minds now as you began to think of all the possibilities here. Now it's by no means as simple as I made it sound, there is a lot of setup work and hours of trying this, testing then back to the drawing board stuff, but all kinds of things are totally do-able.

Quick edit, I found an image from one of Arc's tutorials. This shows a image of Aberdeen with a pathmap overlay. On it he has added the SA's with lines representing the neighbor relations and I think it is a very good visual and should help you understand this concept.

SA's and neighbor connections schema, modified from the original image by Arc De Wrath. I changed it from .png to .jpq to meet file size upload limits.


I will start a new thread on this topic as soon as I can compose something.

I hope this all has been of some help.

L8trz,

Cajunwolf
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Re: Smallones

Postby Swaffy » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:08 pm

Can someone pin this up in the tutorials section, please? At least until organized tutorials are made, this can still help people.
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Re: Smallones

Postby GoodDayToDie!! » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:00 am

I don't foresee me making another map that would be good for bots(smallones?) Due to all the phun I partake in the Interstate82 mod.
However, the one map I made for vanilla bf42 would be pretty rad with bots.....After I finish the 3-4 is82 projects(maps) in the works, I want to give this map(Operation Good Day, found here: http://atfclanmaps.com/ ) a serious facelift and submit it to the Moongamers site/server....Swaffy or cajunwolf, if interested, would you like to add bots to this map? If not interested, I completely understand. I do not care to learn this myself(at this time:)
It would nevertheless be shnazzy to see bots running around in there!

Keep up the awesome work guys!! You are true heroes and a beacon of knowledge to us all.
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Re: Smallones

Postby cajunwolf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:55 am

Let me see .. how to answer this one with tact and consideration for others, all the while teaching a lesson about life in a constructive way. Don't know but here goes.

I don't foresee me making another map that would be good for bots(smallones?)


You never plan to do another map that would support bots and you didn't read the thread. You really not interested in learning it either.

I do not care to learn this myself(at this time:)


When your ready to learn, look me up. I will go to no ends to try and make you understand and achieve your goal of adding bots to you own map. I am sure you have a fine map but over time I have myself and working with others in mod teams added ai to hundreds of maps. Since I started doing this back in 2004 I have had .. I don't know how many any more ..maps sent to me for AI additions. I would often take the best of the best of the best of these and using their map teach them how to do it. I am doing the same here, trying to teach those who want to learn to do this before the sun sets on this great old game forever. I look around and it seems it's just me and Dnamro left that kind of remember all of this stuff, and he is with his troops in Afghanistan right now, so pray for their safety. I am sure you do understand, and yes you mentioned you do, but I don't just add ai to someones map. I mean read the thread and you will surely see the amount of time it takes. Besides no one knows your map like you do, therefore your the one to add the ai. Can't argue with logic right?

The only exception to the above rule is that if it is one exceptional map, one that someone had spent the time and had the drive and desire for a professional end product, then yes I would add the ai and feel pride when they included me in the credits. After all for a mapper of that caliber to think me worthy of adding ai to their baby, well hey, it's an honer thing. I have had the honer many times of being involved in adding ai to some really awesome maps from various mod team mappers and private individuals, and you learn some great stuff from their examples. I have to say that some of the mappers from forgotten hope have presented me with some really challenging but beautiful maps. One of the most clever mappers I have had the privilege of working with would have to be Natty Wallo (Forgotten Honer Tournament maps). Anyhow I digress again, just like an old fart thinking back on old times. LoL .. yea I am full of it.

So please don't take this the wrong way. Now let me mention I can be bought. I'm thinking like two weeks, all expenses, in margarita-ville might start me to thinking. Depending on how much "expenses" we might be talking about. Heheh :D

Oh and lets not forget a good dependable internet connection!
Last edited by cajunwolf on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Smallones

Postby GoodDayToDie!! » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:22 am

Haha!

I do understand your fine logic kind sir. I suppose then that the only way you will determine if it is a map worth working on is to download it and give it a gander!!
Also, I do understand that if you say,"no thanks!", I will be content for now in my own tweakings and decide an appropriate time to learn this aspect of modding.

Take a look at the map though, it IS the one and only map in the history of bf1942 to feature the infamous Lancis Stratos rally car from the Interstate82 mod:) I'm happy about that! The things this car can do when driven, knowledged in it's ways!!!!! Man! Evade any enemy!! I would love to give anyone of you guys a tour of the hardest map in is82: Shroom's OmgZilla3.....man!!! okay okay, ttyl.

cheers
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Re: Smallones

Postby cajunwolf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:51 am

I will consider this some day when I have the time.

At present I am working on wording a post and creating graphic examples dealing with the Strategic Areas and how they effect bot movement in the map.

I think you have missed my point, and I am not sure what your saying or asking, but most vehicles work good in bf1942 if they have the proper ai files. These can be tweaked in map by using an aitweaks.con file.
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Re: Smallones

Postby GoodDayToDie!! » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:12 am

Understood.
Just show boating this particular vehicle...You won't know it till you rode it....I'll leave this thread now...:)
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Re: Smallones

Postby POTAmatt » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:53 pm

POTAmatt ...
I know what you mean. I find myself streaking the pathmaps when i want to keep them on the roadways:


I just path the roadways and it works perfect. Here is how I go about doing this. Using a sacrificial copy of the map (always have and work with one of these) I use the euro wood fence, or what ever you want, and I place it all along the roadways, trails, etc. Now drop this StaticObjects.con file in your maps directory within your ed42 dev folder and fire up ED42. Now you just paint everything in those areas white except the areas within the fence or what ever marker you used. All you are saving in ED42 is the textures anyhow so feel free to flatten the terrain at will to aid in painting the pathmap. Now generate you a new set of pathmaps, pack the map, load and play. Wha La! Your bots follow the roads or trails. Now I usually only do this with Tank maps because infantry should follow allowable terrain unless you want to say, have them follow vehicles along the road like a marching column. Hummmm .. that gives me an idea for a map .. a supply column moving along a road .. strafing with a P51comes to mind..... I digress .. darn ADHD!


LOL. Long time no see! You work too hard CW! It's much easier bringing both texture tiles (the original texture and the pathmap) in photoshop and setting one as a partially transparent overlay to use as a guide when touching up the pathmap for those purposes. But it is a very rare occasion (keeping the cars on the painted highways of the 'Interstate' mod was one example) when i'm touching up a pathmap to influence which way i want bots to go. Almost always a good working strategy is all that is needed.
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